Discussion:
[Marxism] Fidel Castro
Peggy Dobbins
2011-03-31 06:44:45 UTC
Permalink
has this been discussed here?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: news from the cpi(m) <marxistindia at cpim.org>
Date: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:41 AM
Subject: [Marxistindia] Nato's Fascist War: Fidel Castro
To: marxistindia <marxistindia at cpim.org>, lalsalam <lalsalam at yahoogroups.com>,
com-news <com-news at yahoogroups.com>, prfw at yahoogroups.com


marxistindia
news from the cpi(m)
Reflections by Comrade Fidel



NATO's FASCIST WAR



You didn't have to be clairvoyant to foresee what I wrote with great detail
in three Reflection Articles I published on the CubaDebate website between
February 21 and March 3: "The NATO Plan Is to Occupy Libya," "The Cynical
Danse Macabre," and "NATO's Inevitable War."



Not even the fascist leaders of Germany and Italy were so blatantly
shameless regarding the Spanish Civil War unleashed in 1936, an event that
maybe a lot of people have been recalling over these past days.



Almost 75 years to the day have passed since then, but nothing that has
happened over the last 75 centuries, or even 75 millenniums of human life on
our planet can compare.



Sometimes it seems that those of us who serenely voice our opinions on these
issues are exaggerating. I dare say that we have actually been naive to
assume that we all should be aware of the deception or colossal ignorance
that humanity has been dragged into.



In 1936 there was an intense clash between two systems and ideologies of
more or less equal military power.



The arms back then seemed more like toys compared with today's weapons.
Humanity's survival was not threatened despite the destructive power and the
locally lethal force deployed. Entire cities and even nations could have
been virtually destroyed. But never was the human race, in its totality, at
risk of being exterminated several times over for the stupid and suicidal
power developed by modern science and technology.



With these current realities in mind, it is embarrassing to read the
continuous news reports on the use of powerful laser-guided rockets with
100% accuracy, fighter-bombers that go twice the speed of light, potent
explosives that blow apart uranium-hardened metals that have an everlasting
effect on the inhabitants and their descendants.



Cuba stated its position regarding the internal situation in Libya at the
meeting in Geneva. Without hesitating, Cuba defended the idea of a political
solution to the conflict in Libya and was categorically opposed to any
foreign military intervention.



In a world where the alliance between the United States and the developed
capitalist powers of Europe increasingly take hold of the people's resources
and fruits of their labor, any honest citizen, whatever their standpoint to
the government, would be opposed to a foreign military intervention in their
country.



But most absurd about the current situation is the fact that before the
brutal war broke out in Northern Africa, in another region of the world,
nearly 10 000 kilometers away, a nuclear accident had occurred in one of the
most populated areas of the world following a tsunami caused by a 9.0
earthquake, which has already cost a hard-working nation like Japan nearly
30 000 lives. Such accident would have not occurred 75 years before.



In Haiti, a poor and underdeveloped country, a nearly 7.0 quake according to
the Richter scale, caused over 300 000 deaths, countless people wounded and
hundreds of thousands harmed.



However, what was terribly tragic in Japan was the accident at the Fukushima
nuclear plant, whose consequences are still to be assessed.



I will only recall some of the main stories published by the news agencies:



ANSA.- Fukushima 1 nuclear plant is releasing "extremely high and
potentially lethal radiations," said Gregory Jaczko, chairman of the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission (NRC), the US nuclear entity.



EFE.- The nuclear threat stemming from the serious situation at a Japanese
plant, following the earthquake, has triggered security revisions in atomic
plants around the world and has made some countries paralyze their plans.



Reuters.- Japan's devastating earthquake and deepening nuclear crisis could
result in losses of up to $200 billion for Japanese economy, but the global
impact remains hard to gauge.



EFE.- The deterioration of one reactor after another at Japan's Fukushima
nuclear center continued to feed fears of a pending nuclear disaster as
desperate attempts to control a radioactive leak did nothing to provide even
a glimmer of hope.



AFP.- Japan?s Emperor Akihito expressed concern about the unpredictable
character of the nuclear crisis hitting Japan following the quake and
tsunami that killed thousands of people and left 500 000 homeless. New quake
reported in the Tokyo area.


There are reports talking about even more concerning issues.



Some refer to the presence of toxic radioactive iodine in Tokyo's drinking
water, which doubles the tolerable amount that can be consumed by the
smallest children in the Japanese capital. One of these reports says that
the stocks of bottled water are shrinking in Tokyo, a city located in a
prefecture at more than 200 kilometers from Fukushima.



This series of circumstances poses a dramatic situation on our world.

I can express freely my views on the war in Libya.


I do not share political or religious views with the leader of that country.
I am a Marxist-Leninist and a follower of Marti, as I have already said.



I see Libya as a member of the Non-Aligned Movement and a sovereign State of
the nearly 200 members of the United Nations.



Never, a large or small country, in this case with only 5 million
inhabitants, was the victim of such a brutal attack by the air force of a
militaristic organization with thousands of fighter-bombers, more than 100
submarines, nuclear aircraft carriers, and sufficient arsenal to destroy the
planet many times over. Our species had never encountered this situation
and there had been nothing similar 75 years ago, when the Nazi bombers
attacked targets in Spain.


Now, however, the criminal and discredited NATO will write a "beautiful"
little story about its "humanitarian" bombing.


If Gaddafi honors the traditions of his people and decides to fight to the
last breath, as he has promised, together with the Libyans who are facing
the worst bombing a country has ever suffered, NATO and its criminal
projects will sink into the mire of shame.


The people respect and believe in men who fulfill their duty.


More than 50 years ago, when the United States killed more than a hundred
Cubans with the explosion of merchant ship "La Coubre" our people proclaimed
"Patria o Muerte." (Homeland or Death). They have fulfilled this, and have
always been determined to keep their word.


"Anyone who tries to seize Cuba," said the most glorious fighter in our
history-"will only gather the dust of her soil soaked in blood."


I beg you to excuse the frankness with which I address the issue.



Fidel Castro Ruz

28 March 2011

8:14 p.m.


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Margaret Powell Dobbins
www.PeggyDobbins.net
Sociology a form of Art
Lüko Willms
2011-03-31 11:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Peggy Dobbins (pegdobbins at gmail.com) wrote on 2011-03-31 at 02:44:45 in
Post by Peggy Dobbins
has this been discussed here?
No, but the text had already been posted ... if you would please check the
list for such posts before you send such texts a second time!

Discussion has not happened, since the friends of the imperial attacks on
the Arab revolution like to slander seasoned revolutionary leaders as Fidel
Castro, but do not take up his real arguments.


Cheers,
L?ko Willms
Frankfurt, Germany
--------------------------------
Les Schaffer
2011-03-31 13:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lüko Willms
Discussion has not happened, since the friends of the imperial attacks
on the Arab revolution like to slander seasoned revolutionary leaders
as Fidel Castro, but do not take up his real arguments.
Lou: look, this has got to stop or we should shut marxmail down.

Les
Louis Proyect
2011-03-31 13:37:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Schaffer
Lou: look, this has got to stop or we should shut marxmail down.
Les
I actually think that Luko helps to undermine his own cause. As I
stated the other day, we are dealing with the lingering effects of
Stalinism on the left even though the CP today does not really use
the logic of the Moscow Trials.

Luko, who was at one time a supporter of the American SWP, just
told us that it is okay to support dictatorship as long as it is
the dictatorship of the proletariat.

This use of the term is a grotesque and *Stalinist* misuse of what
Marx had in mind, as Einde pointed out. The Paris Commune
represented a full flowering of democracy even though this was
arguably the first instance of a proletarian dictatorship in
Marxist terms.

Speaking of which, I hope that comrades get a chance to look at
Vince Copeland and Sam Marcy's articles from the 1950s where a lot
of Trotskyists got these warmed-over Stalinist notions. I plan to
blog about them when I get a chance.
Dennis Brasky
2011-03-31 13:38:10 UTC
Permalink
============================================================
Post by Lüko Willms
Discussion has not happened, since the friends of the imperial attacks
on the Arab revolution like to slander seasoned revolutionary leaders
as Fidel Castro, but do not take up his real arguments.
Lou: look, this has got to stop or we should shut marxmail down.
Les
Stop what Les? Luko will just deny that he meant anyone on this list.
Lüko Willms
2011-03-31 17:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Les Schaffer (schaffer at optonline.net) wrote on 2011-03-31 at 09:32:39 in
Post by Les Schaffer
Post by Lüko Willms
Discussion has not happened, since the friends of the imperial attacks
on the Arab revolution like to slander seasoned revolutionary leaders
as Fidel Castro, but do not take up his real arguments.
Lou: look, this has got to stop or we should shut marxmail down.
What is "this"? The slander thrown at seasoned revolutionary leaders like
Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez, the slander thrown at me and other participants
which dare to differ with the official line spread by CNN etc? Or what?

If you think that I should not have stated the fact that many people, even
some participating on this list, actually do welcome the military attack by
Imperialism on Libya, but that this would imply that you feel yourself be
attacked, then you should say the same about other people's slander spread
again and again on this list. E.g. the slander contained in the Subject line
"Hugo Chavez and Israel agree on one thing at least".

Equal rights for everyone, or? Dictatorship of opinion, which excludes
voicing support for independence for the country so long colonized,
oppressed, plundered by the USA and the European colonialists?


Cheers,
L?ko Willms
Frankfurt, Germany
--------------------------------
Greg McDonald
2011-04-01 09:34:28 UTC
Permalink
This guy's a fucking moron.
Post by Lüko Willms
Discussion has not happened, since the friends of the imperial attacks
on ?the Arab revolution like to slander seasoned revolutionary leaders
as Fidel ?Castro, but do not take up his real arguments.
Lou: ?look, this has got to stop or we should shut marxmail down.
? What is "this"? The slander thrown at seasoned revolutionary leaders like
Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez, the slander thrown at me and other participants
which dare to differ with the official line spread by CNN etc? Or what?
? If you think that I should not have stated the fact that many people, even
some participating on this list, actually do welcome the military attack by
Imperialism on Libya, but that this would imply that you feel yourself be
attacked, then you should say the same about other people's slander spread
again and again on this list. E.g. the slander contained in the Subject line
"Hugo Chavez and Israel agree on one thing at least".
? Equal rights for everyone, or? Dictatorship of opinion, which excludes
voicing support for independence for the country so long colonized,
oppressed, plundered by the USA and the European colonialists?
Les Schaffer
2011-04-01 12:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lüko Willms
What is "this"? The slander thrown
L?ko: i'm not getting dragged into your swamp. clean up your act or go
on moderation. clean up means, argue against positions people have
*CLEARLY* taken, or go suck your thumb.

Les

Lou Paulsen
2011-03-31 14:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lüko Willms
the friends of the imperial attacks on
the Arab revolution like to slander seasoned revolutionary leaders as Fidel Castro, but do not take up his real arguments.
Lueko, I think you're mistaken. I don't see any supporters of imperialist intervention here. At any rate Proyect is not one. I would suggest that you not call anyone else a "friend of imperialism", just as I would urge others not to call people "friends of massacring people in cold blood."

Having said this, if Louis is reading this, I would like to ask him to elaborate on the -practical- implications of accepting his positions on Gadhafi and Libya, as against the positions which he supposes some of the rest of us to espouse. I am 95% sure that he is not taking a straight third-camp position. Are there implications for mass action? Agitation? Propaganda? What?

Lou Paulsen
Member, WWP

Hell, I'll go out on a limb - 97% :-)
Louis Proyect
2011-03-31 14:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lou Paulsen
Having said this, if Louis is reading this, I would like to ask
him to elaborate on the -practical- implications of accepting
his positions on Gadhafi and Libya, as against the positions
which he supposes some of the rest of us to espouse. I am 95%
sure that he is not taking a straight third-camp position. Are
there implications for mass action? Agitation? Propaganda?
What?
Is there really any need for me to waste bandwidth here about my
being opposed to the CIA in Libya, to no-fly zones, to economic
sanctions, etc.? Even Dennis Kucinich has called for Obama's
impeachment.

My only interest in writing about Libya has been to debunk the
myth of Qaddafi as "anti-imperialist".

I might find the time later on to write more about the opposition
to Qaddafi but I found Binh's remarks most illuminating on
Counterpunch:

No anti-imperialist in the West should begrudge them for this act
of desperation. Our job isn't to dictate tactics to Libya's
revolutionaries. We should support revolutions against tyranny and
oppression no matter where they break out, who they are (mis)led
by, or what their political program is.

That said, we shouldn't close our eyes to weaknesses within the
revolutionary wave stretching from Algeria to Iran. Unlike in
Egypt, Libya's revolutionaries have not appealed to the
rank-and-file of the military to switch sides, nor have they
sought to mobilize the country's workers to strike against the
regime. This took social revolution off the table and confined the
struggle between Gaddafi and the rebels to a purely military
dimension, guaranteeing him the upper hand and setting the stage
for the LNC's desperate plea for help from the region's most
anti-revolutionary force: the U.S. government. This failure was no
accident; many members of the LNC are top figures from Gaddafi's
decrepit and brutal regime. Instead of mobilizing workers, they've
issued proclamations honoring all contracts with foreign oil
companies.

By inviting imperialist intervention in the form of a no-fly zone,
the LNC risks becoming dependent on the good graces of Washington
which will use its newfound leverage to contain the revolution
even further. Limiting and weakening the revolution will
strengthen Gaddafi.
Lüko Willms
2011-03-31 17:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Lou Paulsen (loupaulsen at sbcglobal.net) wrote on 2011-03-31 at 09:08:34 in
Post by Lou Paulsen
Lueko, I think you're mistaken. I don't see any supporters of imperialist
intervention here. At any rate Proyect is not one. I would suggest that you
not call anyone else a "friend of imperialism", just as I would urge others not
to call people "friends of massacring people in cold blood."
OK, let both sides return to a debate which does not spread denigratory
remarks about others.

OK? But that should be valid for _all._


Cheers,
L?ko Willms
Frankfurt, Germany
--------------------------------
Leonardo Kosloff
2011-03-31 12:18:21 UTC
Permalink
Luko Willms wrote:
"Discussion has not happened, since the friends of the imperial attacks on the Arab revolution like to slander seasoned revolutionary leaders as Fidel
Castro, but do not take up his real arguments. "

Well. I'll speak for myself, but if I haven't discussed (and probably will not discuss) with you, who are I'm sure Fidel's most sober emissary, it's because your formulations are retarded (and repetitive at that). Like this little quip..."friends of the imperial attacks"..., you hear, show yourselves CIA marxmail infiltrates!
LK
jake shearer
2011-03-31 20:19:20 UTC
Permalink
"we are dealing with the lingering effects of Stalinism on the left .....it is okay to support dictatorship as long as it is the dictatorship of the proletariat
....I plan to blog about ...these warmed-over Stalinist notions...when i get a chance "



pardon the rescramble but i found it all so delightfully silly
lets have a tea party and play church lady trot

who is more humane and righteous and refined in their enlightenment ... then thou comrade stalinoid brute
Louis Proyect
2011-03-31 21:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by jake shearer
pardon the rescramble but i found it all so delightfully silly
lets have a tea party and play church lady trot
Jake, you have to make more of an effort to be serious. If you think
that the USSR was correct to suppress the Hungarian revolution, why
don't you just say so. We don't need to have an extended debate about
the Stalinist system but it would help me to past through your flippancy
and into some serious discussions.
jake shearer
2011-03-31 20:24:26 UTC
Permalink
"Discussion has not happened"

well has it really happened here or has there just been a lot of reflexive sanctimony

seems all lots of critters here needed was to know col Q went neolib back there a few years

for others more prim in their standards of acceptable state craft it was that nasty massacre thing back when

if you are running a sovereign operation
and you figured next time this same crimes against humanity game might have "my state" as its target ....
then what ??
jake shearer
2011-03-31 21:14:14 UTC
Permalink
lou thanx for this clear restatement of your view ..as a recent reader i needed this ..obviously most others here didn't


"Unlike in Egypt, Libya's revolutionaries have not appealed to the rank-and-file of the military to switch sides, nor have they sought to mobilize the country's workers to strike against the regime. This took social revolution off the table and confined the struggle between Gaddafi and the rebels to a purely military dimension, guaranteeing him the upper hand and setting the stage for the LNC's desperate plea for help from the region's most anti-revolutionary force: the U.S. government. This failure was no accident; many members of the LNC are top figures from Gaddafi's decrepit and brutal regime. Instead of mobilizing workers, they've issued proclamations honoring all contracts with foreign oil companies. "

a couple comments:

the parallel between libya and egypt breaks down as soon as security forces firing on demonstrators in tripoli led to armed rebellion in benghazi not simply
to more massive demos

the two different roads egypt's and libya's both seem contextually sensible in hind sight

though i might want to notice the empire's outcry against col Q's brutish response to the demos ie"them's crimes against humanity ...watch out bub"
seems to have chilled col Q's tactics so far as i can see


then again as i recall
the armed uprising in B preceeded the empire's dire warnings to col Q

this quite possibly indicates a pre existing link between empire and benghazi rebels

if the demonstrations ala egypt had simply continued on however
the empire warnings might not have come as sharply or clearly ..ie uncle speak might have sounded more like that fired at the yemeni regime

on the other hand
imagining no "overt /covert" uncle backing for a rebellion i think we'd still get an armed rebellion
not more demos and broader mobilization efforts
the option you suggest "Instead.. mobilizing workers.." suggests an alternative that the rebellions leaders "correctly realized would not have led to much beyond
more senseless blood shed in tripoli

despite clear lower class urban support in tripoli for the upheavel maybe an unwarned col Q looked ready and willing to slaughter the innocent
in a fashion unavailible ....for what ever reasons ....to mubarak
Suresh
2011-04-01 10:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Greg McDonald: This guy's a fucking moron.

Suresh - A brilliant contribution, I'm sure. I have to confess, I'm still
utterly baffled at the support or even barely disguised neutrality I'm seeing
from self-professed Marxists about the imperialist war against Libya. I will
happily return to lurking once this bizarre interlude ends.

One thing does seem striking, however. It seems apparent that if this
intervention was being led by the Bush administration (or by a Cheney or even
McCain regime) then it would be receiving much more than the half-hearted token
opposition it is getting now. After everything's said and done, even the
class-conscious left retains certain illusions in the Democrats and the Obama
administration!
Greg McDonald
2011-04-01 11:22:55 UTC
Permalink
They're popping up like mushrooms after a long spring rain.
Post by Suresh
Greg McDonald: This guy's a fucking moron.
Suresh - A brilliant contribution, I'm sure. I have to confess, I'm still
utterly baffled at the support or even barely disguised neutrality I'm seeing
from self-professed Marxists about the imperialist war against Libya. I will
happily return to lurking once this bizarre interlude ends.
One thing does seem striking, however. It seems apparent that if this
intervention was being led by the Bush administration (or by a Cheney or even
McCain regime) then it would be receiving much more than the half-hearted token
opposition it is getting now. After everything's said and done, even the
class-conscious left retains certain illusions in the Democrats and the Obama
administration!
Les Schaffer
2011-04-01 12:49:23 UTC
Permalink
both of you: clean up your act or go on moderation.

Les
Post by Suresh
Greg McDonald: This guy's a fucking moron.
Suresh - A brilliant contribution
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